Gays & Straights on Softball

[kybearfuzz]

After my post this morning, I wondered if some of my views of the number of straight players on a gay softball team were just my own. A cruise around the internet said they weren't and that a growing controversy has been brewing for some time. I'd be curious how you all see the issue.

The primary issue is the limitation of the number of heterosexual players on a given team in a gay league. The North American Gay Amateur Athletic Alliance, the national LGBT softball league, currently has a rule that no team can have more than two heterosexual players on its roster. Critics have said that such leagues should not have any exclusions as it makes us gays appear to be hypocritical. We don't want to be discriminated against and yet we appear to discriminate against straight people for not letting them play or only play in a limited fashion. The opposing side says that gays need a place where we can freely participate without the pressures of being harassed by straight players. It's an interesting situation. Ideally, both sides are correct, but how to find the balance needed is the hard part.

Here's my perspective at least in my little corner of the LGBT softball universe. My league has no limitations on the number of heterosexual players a team can have. There are two or three teams that rosters of nearly 80% or more straight players. And they tend to be the teams that win the league every year. My former team that I played on for five years is one of these. The number of straight players had steadily increased from the time I started to last year when I left. My current team has two straight players on the roster.

The pros of not having a straight-player limit:

• It encourages more straight players to participate in the league and more interaction with LGBT folks, building bridges and that sort of thing.
  
• It allows our straight friends and family to participate with us in the league.

The cons of not having a straight-player limit:

• It allows teams to stack the roster with straight jocks to win the league.
  
• The more straight players on the team, the fewer gay players on the team.

This is simplistic in a way and probably not the most in-depth reasons, but then I did ask for discussion here.

One argument I've read is that the idea of super-jocks makes it sound like straight players are better than gay players. Obviously that isn't true. However, I will say that you're less likely to get a mediocre gay player to play on a team of straight super-jocks.

I played on the super-jock team last year. With every new straight player that was added, I sat on the bench more and more, until whole games went by with me not getting any playing time. I essentially was muscled out of playing. I know many players and some whole teams that are made up of gay players who love playing, but are mediocre at best. If the league was full of straight player teams, most of us would probably wouldn't have signed up. This is the environment I had in high school and I wouldn't repeat that for any amount of money.

So where does the balance exist? I'm not for excluding straight players. It is important that the league is open to anyone who wants to play. Having said that though, it's important the number of straight players doesn't force out the gay players for who the league is designed. What good is having a gay league if gay participants ride the bench and don't play?

Some leagues have competitive and recreational leagues, which helps the better players play each other, leaving the more "just for fun" teams play themselves. Some teams are rated (as are players) to move them from one level to the next when their skills improve. It's not a bad system. However, in smaller leagues there aren't enough teams for such divisions.

So what do you think?

Comments

[mort-83.livejournal.com]

I'm of the same minds as you. Having a lot of better players on the team would make me feel like I was back in gym class. Regardless if they were gay or straight. I know of a few guys on gay leagues how are pretty damn good. I have no other experience so I can't tell if the straight players are better than the gay ones.

I like the recreational versus competitive teams--we did that for volleyball in grad school and I played on the recreational team and it was great.

All that being said, I think having some straight folks on the team is good primarily because it could potentially help break down barriers, although only if the gays get to play.....

[kybearfuzz.livejournal.com]

There doesn't seem to be an easy answer for it, but it does seem that some things need to change. I like playing with the straight guys, but the key word is "playing," meaning I'm not just sitting around.

[itzgid.livejournal.com]

One reason for the creation of minority teams is that we were not able to join the other teams because of discrimination. Another reason is that it gave us a chance to form a group with a common denominator, to celebrate our kinship with other fringe members of society.

That said, I don't think str8s should be banned from GLBT leagues any more than I think BGLT players should be banned from str8 teams. However, if the majority of a team is not composed of TBLG players, then IMHO, that team should either change its roster or cease to identify itself as a LGBT team (and therefore withdraw from the league) until such a time as TBGL players comprise the majority.

(waiting for someone to jump in with "Jane, you ignorant slut.")

[kybearfuzz.livejournal.com]

Actually some of the news articles I found mentioned the similarities to other minority-based leagues, including one for African-Americans that has limitations on the number of non-African-American players they could have. So it's not just the gays.

Jane Jane Jane :D

[itzgid.livejournal.com]

So we agree. Stipulating a gay majority implies a limitation on the number of str8 players. The specific limit is another discussion entirely.

[clintswan.livejournal.com]

if the purpose of the league is so gay men that never got the chance to play, can play now, then there needs to be a limit

if its just for social gay men then no limit should be used

dallas had a league that didn't have a limit (i think) but had different classes for SPORT(COMPETITIVE) or RECREATIONAL

the srt8 dudes that wanted to compete played in the SPORT class, those of us that wanted to play for the purpose to play chose RECREATIONAL

it put the people that would bench people like you and me OUT of our class and made it more enjoyable for all

my 2¢

[texwriterbear.livejournal.com]

I wasn't sure if your league was a member of NAGAAA or not. The Montrose Softball League makes sure that there are no teams with more than two straight players. That's one of the reasons it's such an awesome league.
I have made friends with a number of the straight players who have played in the league for years. They respect us and even come to the bar nights with us. They enjoy the league and respect the rules that we are all asked to follow.
I just don't understand why your league doesn't enforce the rules.

[kybearfuzz.livejournal.com]

I wonder what it would be like if we followed NAGAAA rules. Obviously we never have any teams go to the tournaments, but I know several of my former teammates play on a separate team that goes to the games.

I know most of the straight players have formed good bonds with the gay players, some have even showed up at drag shows to raise money for tournaments.

[itzgid.livejournal.com]

Just as a side note, if some of those "str8" members decided to drop trou and "take one for the team", would that make them more acceptable?

[kybearfuzz.livejournal.com]

LOL... would they be considered straight players if they did that???

[itzgid.livejournal.com]

"De Nile" is more than just a river in Egypt.

[dewittar.livejournal.com]

A couple of thoughts.

1. Based on what you describe, could a team have NO gay members?

2. I can imagine a straight person wanting to play on a gay team, but I cannot imagine a gay team wanting too many straight players. I mean, what's the point of that within the context of a gay team?

[kybearfuzz.livejournal.com]

1. Since we have no limits, there isn't anything to stop having an all-hetero team.
   
2. Usually the team with the majority of the roster being straight tends to be in the lead to win the season. It's done just to win, in my opinion.

[dewittar.livejournal.com]

Gee, how much self-loathing must there be in order to betray the tribe just so you can beat them all? This is not about inclusion at all. If I have to pack my so-called gay team with straight players in order to beat everyone else, it's just a round about way of participating in my own oppression.

So says the theologian.

[kybearfuzz.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... now that is an interesting way of putting it. I'm not sure if any resolution will come of it. I do know that mine isn't the only team grumbling about it. There are some great teams of mostly Lesbians who play their hearts out only to get beat by the str8 boy teams. It just doesn't seem fair for a team of mostly hetero players to win the championship in a gay league.

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

Are the teams mixed in terms of gender? Do these "straight" players include women? What's the percentage of women on the teams? If the teams are all male, I think this is just as bad as too many straights. Is there a quota by gender?

It's hard for me to be objective on this one, as any reference takes me back to 8th grade PE and playing outdoors barefoot in the burrs. I hated it. Even worse was dodgeball!

Isn't there a controversy with teams that are primarily gay who recruit and pay professional or semi-pro players in order to win the Gay World Series? I know there was controversy about the Norfolk team that won several years ago, because I knew some of the players.

How about playing in the Gay tennis league?

[kybearfuzz.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure about other leagues, but ours does not have any quotas or restrictions on gender. We have three ladies on my team. There are whole teams that are all guys and some are all women. And I don't make much of the gender issue as the all-Lesbian team kicked my former team's butt on more than one occasion, and my old team is GOOD.

I'd not heard anything about a Gay World Series controversy. I'll have to look that one up.

I like playing tennis. I don't think we have a gay league here though. Another thing to look up as I didn't think we had a gay softball league until someone pointed it out.

[jeepdude-70.livejournal.com]

it seems like the best thing is to deal with the actual problem: the atmosphere that is established when discrimination exists. so, if it's a recreational league, then there should be rules stating that everyone gets to play the same amount of time, with few exceptions. i know other gay sports leagues don't even allow people to build teams that way; it's a draft process, and that cuts down on some of those issues as well. also, if there were to be a "limit" on str8 players in the rules, how would you impose the rule? do the guys have to "prove" they are at very least bi? (i'm sensing a good xtube video opportunity here...) even a guy in a het relationship could say "oh, i'm bi" and be done with it. (wasn't there a will and grace episode on this?) anyway, great topic, and great discussion so far. thanks for bringing it up :) can't wait to hear what your league decides.

[kybearfuzz.livejournal.com]

I don't think my league is even pursuing this as an issue. We are not part of the NAGAAA so we don't follow that rule.

And it is an interesting question, how would a player prove he or she is gay? Is there a questionnaire (Name Barbra's second album:)? Do they need references (Give the names of three men you've slept with:)?